The pull out method (maybe its time to cum on Iraqs ass)
YEEEE HAW
So, you may or may not have heard about the debate in the House Of Representatives last week about whether we should pull out of Iraq or not. Basically, rep. Murtha from Pennsylvania, a hawkish Vietnam veteran democrat, who is well respected by many republicans, called for a withdrawl of troops from Iraq starting immediately and completing in 6 months or so, but being sure to do it in a safe and responsible manner. He said that we had become the enemies to the Iraqi people and that they needed to continue to build and strengthen their democracy themselves. Then, House republicans introduced a bill that would make it the "Sense of the house" that we should pull out immediately (without makign any provisions for safety of our troops during the pull out). Basically, it was a bastardized version of Murtha's statements made essentially to put democrats in the uncomfortable position of having to vote against it. I listened to teh debates over this on CSPAN radio, and man, I never knew the House of Representatives could acually be exciting... they were all yelling at each other, and one representative even got stripped of speaking rights for the day for calling Murtha a coward... exciting stuff. Anyway, I think it got voted down nearly unanimously, but I think it was made pretty clear that it was all a stunt to make democrats look bad and really was a travesty to what should be a real serious debate, and not a political stunt.
Well, apparently, the Iraqi provisional government has also decided that we should leave. They had a conference and issued a statement that called for a pullout timetable, and condemned terrorism, but defined it only as acts against civilians or infastrucure, acknowledging the right of resistance against American troops. Now, there were representatives from all the major groups in Iraq, so this is a compromise between the radical groups and the ones who are more open to our prescence, but still, we have done what we can, and set up a democratic government.... They have the right to kick us out, and we have to listen to them, otherwise we appear to not recognize the sovreignty and legitimacy of a government that we created, which kinda defeats teh purpose of what we were doing there in the first place. And really, at some point the government has to stand on its own legs and do its own thing, not be our bastard stepchild. In addition, Colin Powell and Paul Bremer have both said that if the Iraqis want us out, we'll leave. Well, it sounds like they do.
You can say all you want that we need to "stay the course" or that pulling out now lets the terrorists win, but thats not really our problem. We've done our job. We've created a decent government, and restored the country to a reasonable level of peace. But they need to finish building their democracy on their own. They need their own hand in this if they are going to respect their own government, and have faith in it. There might even need to be blood spilt by Iraqis against Iraqis. The path of our country from its founding to where it is today was not easy, but we did it ourselves. We certainly know better than the Iraqis how to run a democracy... we live in one (or so they tell us). But its better for them to make their own mistakes and decide on the best way to govern themselves than for us to tell them what to do... even if in the end it comes out the same. We certainly should stick around in some capacity (assuming they want us to) to help train their military and offer addvice, but we should be in a supporting role, and not running the show. If for no other reason than that they are a sovreign nation, and once their army is strong enough, they have every right in the world to kick us out by force (of course we'd kick their asses, so it would be pointless). I dont think this is about whether we should be there in the firstplace any more, or whether the prewar intelligence was build on lies and mistakes, Its about what is best to do right now given where we find ourselves, and the current state of things indicates strongly that at the very least, there should be serious discussion about this and we shouldnt shy away from it saying that any such discussion emboldens the enemy or is unpatriotic, cuz that complete BS.
I certainly dont know what the situation is like over there, and maybe I'm full of crap, But I think we could pull out soon and claim victory. We've instated a government, and the whole terrorism reason for being there is debatable at least, but lets at least discuss it, and figure out how we can make Iraq a better place, bring our soldiers back home and save them from more blood shed, and keep us safe at home as well. God knows we didnt debate this openly enough before going in... but its better late than never.
So, you may or may not have heard about the debate in the House Of Representatives last week about whether we should pull out of Iraq or not. Basically, rep. Murtha from Pennsylvania, a hawkish Vietnam veteran democrat, who is well respected by many republicans, called for a withdrawl of troops from Iraq starting immediately and completing in 6 months or so, but being sure to do it in a safe and responsible manner. He said that we had become the enemies to the Iraqi people and that they needed to continue to build and strengthen their democracy themselves. Then, House republicans introduced a bill that would make it the "Sense of the house" that we should pull out immediately (without makign any provisions for safety of our troops during the pull out). Basically, it was a bastardized version of Murtha's statements made essentially to put democrats in the uncomfortable position of having to vote against it. I listened to teh debates over this on CSPAN radio, and man, I never knew the House of Representatives could acually be exciting... they were all yelling at each other, and one representative even got stripped of speaking rights for the day for calling Murtha a coward... exciting stuff. Anyway, I think it got voted down nearly unanimously, but I think it was made pretty clear that it was all a stunt to make democrats look bad and really was a travesty to what should be a real serious debate, and not a political stunt.
Well, apparently, the Iraqi provisional government has also decided that we should leave. They had a conference and issued a statement that called for a pullout timetable, and condemned terrorism, but defined it only as acts against civilians or infastrucure, acknowledging the right of resistance against American troops. Now, there were representatives from all the major groups in Iraq, so this is a compromise between the radical groups and the ones who are more open to our prescence, but still, we have done what we can, and set up a democratic government.... They have the right to kick us out, and we have to listen to them, otherwise we appear to not recognize the sovreignty and legitimacy of a government that we created, which kinda defeats teh purpose of what we were doing there in the first place. And really, at some point the government has to stand on its own legs and do its own thing, not be our bastard stepchild. In addition, Colin Powell and Paul Bremer have both said that if the Iraqis want us out, we'll leave. Well, it sounds like they do.
You can say all you want that we need to "stay the course" or that pulling out now lets the terrorists win, but thats not really our problem. We've done our job. We've created a decent government, and restored the country to a reasonable level of peace. But they need to finish building their democracy on their own. They need their own hand in this if they are going to respect their own government, and have faith in it. There might even need to be blood spilt by Iraqis against Iraqis. The path of our country from its founding to where it is today was not easy, but we did it ourselves. We certainly know better than the Iraqis how to run a democracy... we live in one (or so they tell us). But its better for them to make their own mistakes and decide on the best way to govern themselves than for us to tell them what to do... even if in the end it comes out the same. We certainly should stick around in some capacity (assuming they want us to) to help train their military and offer addvice, but we should be in a supporting role, and not running the show. If for no other reason than that they are a sovreign nation, and once their army is strong enough, they have every right in the world to kick us out by force (of course we'd kick their asses, so it would be pointless). I dont think this is about whether we should be there in the firstplace any more, or whether the prewar intelligence was build on lies and mistakes, Its about what is best to do right now given where we find ourselves, and the current state of things indicates strongly that at the very least, there should be serious discussion about this and we shouldnt shy away from it saying that any such discussion emboldens the enemy or is unpatriotic, cuz that complete BS.
I certainly dont know what the situation is like over there, and maybe I'm full of crap, But I think we could pull out soon and claim victory. We've instated a government, and the whole terrorism reason for being there is debatable at least, but lets at least discuss it, and figure out how we can make Iraq a better place, bring our soldiers back home and save them from more blood shed, and keep us safe at home as well. God knows we didnt debate this openly enough before going in... but its better late than never.
posted by Unknown | Tuesday, November 22, 2005
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